More random thoughts. I'm beginning to practice daily again, and it's a rough time getting back into a structured practice schedule. I had a thought and I was wondering what your suggestions or responses will be:
Would you say creativity can flourish more in an enviornment that is 90% free of outside influence. What I mean is that suppose I wanted to develop my own sound, really sound like no one else (to a certain extent). Wouldn't it make sense to maybe stop listening to some of your favorite players? Or for some people; stop stealing licks, lol. Seriously, has anyone ever thought about this? To be an individual means to develop your own ideas. A great way to do that would be to stop listening to other drummers? That's a far out idea, I realize this. I don't completely think it's possible to be 100% original, but sometimes I also wonder, am I too much of a fan? Do I spend too much time 'consuming' what I want to achieve instead of doing the work required? Thoughts on this?
I think there are seasons to study your favorite drummers in great detail, and there are seasons where you use what you've learned to create something that defines your art separate from the rest. Maybe giving your ears and mind a rest from the other influences isn't such a bad idea on occasion.
I think the answer is to make your own choices. Do you have to try to be you?
I think we can't help but be ourselves. Even if we try to clone someone else, which many of us have probably done, it ultimately becomes our take on them. I have stolen things from tons of folks, but at the end of the day, I'm not them.
Another analogy: we learn to speak from our parents. Initially we ran around imitating them slavishly. I know I did. I learned at an early age that acting as my father did when he was stuck in traffic was inappropriate when standing in a slow line in kindergarten. I had to learn to think for myself and respond appropriately not as my dad would, but as I would.
Hope this helps,
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 05, 2005 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Riddim ]</font>
Well put Clintuplet. I like that.
Riddim I also agree with you.
Just my two cents worth ...
My growth and general appetite was consistently fed by listening closely to others ... even to the extent of trying to emulate them for a while. I was moving from rock drummers, big band drummers, jazz drummers, punk drummers, reggae drummers and fusion drummers. I read that Tony Williams very much pursued this kind of method - closely trying to emulate his heroes Max Roach, Art Blakey and suchlike, and he ended up developing such a personal and unique voice. But as unique as it is I believe I can really detect in Tony the passion, bombast and projection of Art Blakey up with the intelligence of Max Roach in that personality. They stayed with him inherently ... and I read that he regarded that as a beautiful thing - that they their influence was somewhere in there, and detectable in a part of Tony's whole approach.
As it was for me.
When I was 19 - still affected by many influences, I was recording an album called IOU for Allan Holdsworth. People have commented on how they found such a Tony influence back then. Well, apart from the fact Allan himself encouraged me to use CS Black Spot heads on my Gretsch drums at the time I believe you certainly can hear the essence of a Tony Williams in there ... but also, along with Stewart Copeland, Billy Cobham, Narada Michael Walden, JackDeJohnette, Eric Gravatt, John Von Ohlen, John Bonham and others. I can put that album on now and really hear all the guys in a part of what I sounded like then.
Interestingly, there was a line of attack - a general central personality, even then, that was not any of them. I believe that was the emergence of "me". It wasn't forced, it just started transpiring, very naturally. I couldn't even detect it back then, and didn't think about it too much. I really think there was a combination of all those influences evident there, and out of all of them I started to display something of my own personality out of that certain collective vocabulary - born out of the things others had done, essentially, but these were the tools that set me off. Plus I was reacting to things, emotionally, very much for my own reasons.
In addition, I think that as long as we don't try and mould ourselves into trying to sound like "one" player, to the exclusion of everyone else, on a constant basis we can't really avoid being ourselves. It's too much a fundamental, whether we realise it or not sometimes. I think we all have our own distinctive sound and touch, along with the individuality of our speaking voices. Unless we drastically try to mould that into "something else" that will always be there. From this point it has to be said that we, instinctively (I believe), pretty much display everything that happens (and has happened) to us as people through how we sound. I don't believe we can really avoid that, except, as I say, in a situation where you can fully "realise" your voice and deliberately attempt to stifle it in every way possible. Even then probably not.
I think it's all a natural and organic process. We display what has moved us ... maybe what inspired us to take up the drums in the first place - our fears, our search, our characteristics and basically who WE are.
Try not to force anything. Don't run from the influence of people who affect you greatly on the drums. I would encourage to go through it - take the essence of those things that have motivated you and stimulated you and inspired you. You will work through them, and come out with another facet at the end. Ultimately, I believe we'll play what's us in the end ... and there's no better way to realise that than get yourself playing with as many people as possible on a regular basis - whenever possible, on-stage, and in front of people. I could never handle the bedroom stuff for very long, personally. I needed to start interacting and contributing with others at the soonest opportunities.
Just a ramble. Hope it helps.
Sincerely,
Gary Husband
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well written. That deserves to be published to a wider audience.Originally posted by Gary Husband:
Just my two cents worth ...
No man is an island. I don't think that originality is found by not listening to your favorite players. I think just the opposite. You need only listen to them and realize they didn't just concoct the stuff they do out of mid-air. They copied their heroes and built on the foundation that they created.
As a baby, you didn't start making up your own words.(goo goo gah gah doesn't count)
You learned your vocabulary by imitation. Eventually, as you matured, you formed your own thoughts and ideas and arranged them in a way that is unique to you. It's as simple as that. Music is no different really.
Clint
But, conversely, the more drummers you listen to, the more influences you will have access to.
Even 'bad' drummers.
Check out other musical sources - European, Indian, African, Middle Eastern for musical ideas. Great for odd-time stuff! Learn music harmony & theory too. Maybe learn another instrument. Gradually these influences will creep into your playing, rather than just being a clone.
Hope this is of help Daniel!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That record is probably my all-time favourite piece of music. The compositions and the performances are without peer in my eyes. On top of that, I love the sound of the recording and especially the sound of your (Gary's) drums.Originally posted by Gary Husband:
When I was 19 - still affected by many influences, I was recording an album called IOU for Allan Holdsworth. People have commented on how they found such a Tony influence back then. Well, apart from the fact Allan himself encouraged me to use CS Black Spot heads on my Gretsch drums at the time I believe you certainly can hear the essence of a Tony Williams in there ...
There is definitely a hint of T. Williams there, but to me, the drumming (much like Holdworth's guitar) is totally unique, and it changed MY approach (in a GOOD way) forever.
I recall transcribing bits and pieces of that record and turning on all my friends to it at the time (basically LIVING and BREATHING that record for a few years). I've since gotten it on CD of course and I swear it still gives me goosebumps. A TRUE MASTERPIECE.
I can only guess that there must have been alternate takes or unreleased tracks from those sessions. I would LOVE to hear that stuff too.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That record is probably my all-time favourite piece of music. The compositions and the performances are without peer in my eyes. On top of that, I love the sound of the recording and especially the sound of your (Gary's) drums.Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Gary Husband:
When I was 19 - still affected by many influences, I was recording an album called IOU for Allan Holdsworth. People have commented on how they found such a Tony influence back then. Well, apart from the fact Allan himself encouraged me to use CS Black Spot heads on my Gretsch drums at the time I believe you certainly can hear the essence of a Tony Williams in there ...
There is definitely a hint of T. Williams there, but to me, the drumming (much like Holdworth's guitar) is totally unique, and it changed MY approach (in a GOOD way) forever.
I recall transcribing bits and pieces of that record and turning on all my friends to it at the time (basically LIVING and BREATHING that record for a few years). I've since gotten it on CD of course and I swear it still gives me goosebumps. A TRUE MASTERPIECE.
I can only guess that there must have been alternate takes or unreleased tracks from those sessions. I would LOVE to hear that stuff too.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well wow thanks DSOP,
Yeah there were a few alternative takes of things - one of my favourites I have on cassette here - the original "Water On The Brain", with vocals, as a song, the way we used to do it. It has a great guitar solo. I played it to Allan over the phone, and then he played me yet another take, so ... it seems there are more than I even thought! Hopefully he'll do something with them since he has the multitracks of the album now. I'd like to fix the lousy edit he made in the "Letters Of Marque" drum solo for instance. (Been waiting since 1979 to make that come about one day!!)
Thanks again. Nice to know people remember that one. Haven't heard it it years as I never liked the CD mastering of it very much though. It took on a bit of a "hard" quality to it.
Best,
GH
Gary, your two cents are worth a million bucks in my book. It's always a pleasure hearing your insight.
DSOP, I could gush all day about the IOU album, but I won't. Great posts by all.
Clint
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